March 28 Open Thread - Throw a wrench at it?
It is Monday again, and this is your open thread for the week. Everything that doesn't fit elsewhere goes into this box.
Question - what is the worst vehicle you've ever had the displeasure of working on? I'll allow you to define worst. My nightmare(s) after the jump.
The reason this is on my mind today is that I am heading out the door after typing this to do a tune-up on a friends 2001 Kia Sedona.
The heater core for this vintage of S-10 is up under the dash on the passanger side. The instructions to remove & repair involve removing/relocating the dash on the truck to get at the top screws in the housing that covers the core. I spent 3 hours bent like a froze pretzle working on this evil thing. I eventually got so angry that I ripped the housing off, snapping the plastic at the top where I could not reach/remove the screws. Did I mention I was unwilling to remove the dash? A handful of bloody knuckles (with the cold they didn't hurt much at this point) and a couple of strings of obscinities that I have mostly vanquished from my vocabulary later and I was able to remove the catastrophically leaking heater core & replace it. The core itself was about a 2 minute job. The rest was spend getting the housing on and off.
The next worst experience I had was the first time I had to replace my wife's '96 Civic's driver's side headlight. Coming in at #3 would be the O2 sensor on that same '88 S-10 (4.3L). Then I'd throw in the removal and replacement of the rear 3 spark plugs in the 3.3L V-6 2001 Dodge Caravan I drive. I'm 99% certain these plugs had 200K+ miles on them. You have to be part monkey to reach them, and being blind actually would be an advantage in removing them since you can't see them at all in the process. Replacing the exhaust on my '75 Impala's 350 on my aunt's driveway in the middle of a Colorado hail storm is also high on my list. I weathered the storm under the car in a tee-shirt & shorts for nearly an hour while it rained down golfball sized chunks of ice from the sky. Between the dirt & rust falling into my eyes and the rain/ice melt running down my back on top of the dehydration I was already suffering it was quite horrific. Not the labor, just the experience. Thus you can define "worst" as you see fit in this thread.
I'm sure there are a few other things I've blocked from my memory, but how about you?
Credits: The Angry Panda's on the Citroen come from my collection of odd things seen on cars.
Chris Meirose on March 28, 2011 at 08:31 AM
Another one that comes due to my own stupidity was the replacement of the fuel pump on that same '88 S-10. If you ever have to do an in-tank pump without access from above and without the aid of a lift (I did it in my parent's driveway and I was the only one home...) make sure your tank is bone dry. Mine was about 1/4 full on a 20 gallon tank which = 40ish lbs. of moving liquid that will ruin your day.
That Car Guy on March 28, 2011 at 09:10 AM
We changed the fuel pump/gauge sender assembly in my Ranger's tank, and it was relatively easy to remove the bed compared to dropping the tank. Once the bed was off, we had complete access to the top of the tank without disturbing any of the fuel lines.
We did a similar job on a full-size Chevy pickup. That bed was obviously much heavier, but the results were the same.
Just be sure to use a proper tool to unscrew the assembly. We don't want any sparks.
John Johns on March 28, 2011 at 09:59 AM
1: Absolute worst was replacing the heater core on a 1972 Chevy. The bolts extended far enough that none of my sockets were able to reach the nuts. Ended up driving the bolts through the firewall with a large hamer.
2: My first car was a 1957 Ford with the small V-8. I decided to replace the filter on the crankcase dump tube. I swear I looked at it from the top of the engine and, with God as my witness, decided that the only path was by laying in the dirt and reaching up through the suspension.
Well, the bolt holding the filter can goes down the center were it seats in a tapped hole in the center of the can. Note carefully the term "Center". Well, the bolt had a disconcerting propensity to "not" find the hole. More than two hours later, I was successful in get the $1.00 filter in the can and attached to the block.
I stood up and took another look into the engine bay. The *&^%$%^&& can and offendin bolt were in plain sight. Should have taken a maximum of one minute tops.
Yup. I look twice now.
Grin & regards
JJ
MatLax on March 28, 2011 at 10:33 AM
Suspension job on a 2001 Hyundai Accent that was at the time 7 years old, the piece of crap had rust everywhere (my 1997 Lada was in better shape at the time!) and we had to explain to my brother that we weren't going to do some of the things we planned to because we were afraid to break too many bolts that were rusted in place in the process!
Removing the handbrake cables on my Audi Ur-S4 took a whole day, the new cables aren't in yet! You have to remove the exhaust and it helps a lot to remove the drive shaft...
Having to do the whole suspension on my Volks mk3 after an accident rates quite high to, just because everything was brand new from 6 months before!
David Colborne on March 28, 2011 at 12:14 PM
Hmm... I'd have to go with:
1. Replacing the intake manifold gasket of the Cthulu-bu. The highlight of this particular job was when the rocker arm bolts decided to strip the thread out of the head upon removal.
Honestly, my experience with newish mid-sized GM sedans is not particularly positive. It's like they give no thought to the concept that someone might want to work on the car someday. This also holds true for a somewhat older Pontiac Grand Am a friend of mine is currently driving.
2. Replacing the gear oil in the transmission of a '94 VW Jetta. Here's a helpful hint: Actually find out what hole the oil should go in before you start pouring some in. Otherwise, you're liable to just pour gear oil all over your flywheel.
3. Driver side door hinge of an '89 Mercury Cougar. Stupid thing started to sag, making it nearly impossible for me to close my driver side door. Sadly, the bolts for the hinge are hidden in the deep recesses of the dash somewhere. I eventually settled on jamming some paper clips into the hinge to shore it up, then quickly selling it for $600. To this day, I'll never know who was ripped off on that one.
4. 1985 Mercedes 300TD "California Emissions Edition" - Anything. Anything at all. It was bad enough I didn't have enough experience under the hood to make sense of the plumbing; the highlight was being completely and totally unable to find parts for the car anywhere because MB used a completely different part set to pass CA emissions in '85. I had to special order EVERYTHING for it. Ugh.
Sadly, I kind of miss the 300TD - I bet if I found a Federalized version and had a bit of time, I could probably have some real fun with it. Then again, maybe I just miss the "Spy Hunter"-style smokescreen from the barely filtered diesel exhaust.
Stephen on March 28, 2011 at 05:31 PM
Chis,
I thought everybody knew that car manufacturers start building a car on the assembly line with the heater core, building the whole car around it. You have to remove the dash, a terrible job.
My worst mechanic experience was replacing the valve stem seals on a Taurus SHO. I never realized before that job that a 24 valve engine meant 24 valves, each with their own stem seal. I ended up dropping a valve into a cylinder, having to remove the head, and lets not mention that working on a transverse V6 is definitely in the third or fourth cycle of Dante's Inferno.
--Stephen
Chris Meirose on March 28, 2011 at 08:20 PM
Today's "tune-up" on the 2003 Kia Sedona will rank quite high on the list. http://www.centuryperformance.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25 is an amazing guide to walk through the process. $700 to change the spark plugs? Now I understand why. You literally have to take the top of the motor off. The rear 3 plugs are inaccessibly located under the intake plenum. I started working on the van (owned by a friend) at 12:00 we wrapped up the test drive at 8:00PM. An hour was lost having to jack the van up to recover the ratchet I dropped behind the motor that was not possible to reach otherwise.
Seriously, the Kia Sedona is evil. Beyond evil. Read the link above and be amazed that I didn't declare war on Korea today.
--Big Chris
Cookie the Dog's Owner on March 29, 2011 at 03:35 AM
My late friend "Perk" used to have the devil's own time working on his Lotus Elan (http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/09/our-carslotus-elan-sprint-drophead-coupe.html). Aside from the fact that it was a British car from the 1970s with the usual British (un)reliability, everything was packed so tightly in the body envelope that you couldn't work on any component without removing two others.
mike on March 29, 2011 at 05:17 AM
The Upcoming NIghtmare: My 95 Golf needs a heatercore.
I am not amused. As a previous commenter said, to build this car, the heatercore was suspended in mid air, then the car was built around it. One mechanic wants $1000, another $700. Or I can attempt it, not having the slightest idea of what I am doing. I would seriously prefer saving the 700 bucks. Or maybe just get and install one of those heaters that run off the battery. Or wear another sweater. Times like this i HATE cars.
Chris Meirose on March 29, 2011 at 07:23 AM
Today my hands hurt and are still bleeding, my back and hamstrings are barking too. Thank you evil Kia.
Anthony Cagle on March 29, 2011 at 08:17 AM
My '78's heater core has to have the dash removed to get at it, too. Which is why I never do it myself.
Myself, I'm really not digging the latest craze of putting little stick figure bumper stickers that represent your family. Not for any particular reason, they just irritate me. Most bumper stickers do. I have a University of Wisconsin one in my back window, but that's it.
David Colborne on March 29, 2011 at 10:46 AM
Back in the day, I thought my Dakota needed a heater core. Like the rest of the posters here, I had to dig through the dash to get to it. Since I wasn't successful, I just settled for hooking up a water hose to the heater line and blasting it. The results, both in the amount of rust that came out the other end (a bunch) and how well the heater worked after I did that (quite nicely) were a revelation.
Consequently, unless it's leaking, try flushing it first. Much easier.
David Colborne on March 29, 2011 at 10:54 AM
As for the Sedona... I'm both surprised but not. For what it's worth, my Rio is an absolute dream to work on. I don't know why or what it is about it, but the engine bay is ridiculously intuitive to me. Maybe it's because it's laid out similarly to the K-Car I first learned on (belts in roughly the same place and everything), I don't know. Either way, it's drop-dead simple, which I really like. My suspicion has been that Kia assumed their mechanics will be working on the car for warranty work, so they want to keep it as simple as possible to minimize warranty costs. Whatever the reason, I'll take it.
That said, I'm not especially surprised that Kia didn't apply the same "ease of work" approach to the Sedona. Part of the problem, I suspect, is that it's a minivan with a transverse mounted V6, as opposed to the inline 4 in my Rio; as everyone knows, transverse mounted V6s are evil, hateful creatures designed in the depths of Malbolge to torment the foolish and the unfaithful, especially when mounted in something with the size constraints of a minivan. The other part, I think, is that, unlike the borderline disposal Rio, Kia probably built the Sedona to actually stick around for a while, meaning they anticipate less warranty work. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it makes some sense.
Michael W. Ryder on March 29, 2011 at 12:59 PM
Rebuilding the starter on my 70 Challenger with a 440 Magnum comes in first. The bolts holding on the starter could only be reached with an open end wrench that had to be flipped after each tiny turn. It took over 15 minutes to take out or replace the starter. The fact I had to do this every 6 months and one time in a gravel parking lot in the middle of a Las Vegas summer just made it worse.
Yankee on March 29, 2011 at 03:05 PM
The ABSOLUTE worst I've personally come across was when I had a 92 Chevy Lumina Z34 with that DOHC 24V 3.4 V6. It was a great engine when it ran properly, but that thing was an absolute serviceability nightmare. The battery alone was underneath the windshield washer bottle (which itself was underneath a support bracket). Of course I had to have the timing belt replaced when I had it, and it took the GM dealer about 4 tries to finally get it right. Not to mention a leaky intake manifold and, of course it being a GM FWD V6, it was an "interference" engine from hell.
It was almost hilarious when I would drive (or push) that car into a service bay and watch all the mechanics scatter like roaches with the lights turned on when they saw it coming in.
Stephen on March 29, 2011 at 03:09 PM
Re: Charger starter. You just did not have the right tools :-). Of course, nobody knows what the right tool would be.lugs
On the Kia sparkplugs. Almost every job on the Taurus SHO, one of the first steps was "Remove intake manifold", or remove passenger side front wheel. I think the intake manifold had 18 bolts.
Thank the heavens for air tools.
On the Golf heater core. Most of us just cut open the heater box. While you are in there, replace all of the foam, or you will soon be back.
-Stephen
comatus on March 29, 2011 at 07:01 PM
You know what's easy to work on? Studebakers. There's room to set up camp under those big old metal dashboards--if you pop a seat out, you actually can lay down. I had a heater core and thermo-valve out, bone-stupid and no manual, in less than a half hour, GOT.IT.FIXED! at a radiator shop, and put it back in in 20 minutes. The water pump is on a separate manifold. They figured on it failing every 2-3 years, so you could change it in 15 minutes. For the Avanti, you have to get the blower belts out of the way. Add 30 minutes; another 10 if you want to change the blower lube while it's right there in your hand.
After a while, you get the idea that they actually made their designers work on the cars. They must have been horribly awful cars of course, just ask anybody, but they were very thoughtful about it.
There really are left- and right-hand wrist pins, though.
Jamieson on March 29, 2011 at 08:10 PM
I'm sure I've done some jobs that I have blocked out of memory, but two stick in my mind.
Replacing the upper and lower ball joints on a '99 F250 SuperDuty that had 190k miles on it. I think they were original. Oh, it was 20 degrees out.
And the "March project". '98 Crown Vic Interceptor, with the key spinning freely in the column. In the column you have a two piece actuator assembly going from the key cylinder to the actual switch box. It is jointed at the tilt assembly. Makes sense. Those two pieces are held together by a metal pin! Which fell out.
I was lying on my back on the drivers seat half the time, I had that column loosened and tightened too many times to remember. I am experienced now, but I don't see it benefitting me any...
Bob on March 29, 2011 at 08:23 PM
I remember trying to get parts to rebuild the starter on my 65 Fury, counterman said *nobody* rebuilds Chrysler starters. Loved that I could push-start that car even with its automatic transmission.
Water pump on my girlfriend's (now wife) Ford Tempo - not that hard to do, but I had to do it so damn often. In the snow/slush/rain/heat/parking lots/etc. I did get to be really damn good and quick at swapping the thing out.
Fuel pump on my '99 Bonneville, which led onto replacing fuel lines AND all the brake lines - fun on an ABS equipped car.
Anyone spend quality time with rear disk brakes on the mid-eighties Regal/Cutlass/Luminas? That sick, awful design soured me on rear disk brakes to this day...frozen calipers and that terrible parking brake system...ruined my hands more than once cleaning up the sliders and trying to get the dust boots back in place. Oh I HATED working on those rusted-up brakes.
seguin on March 29, 2011 at 08:47 PM
Replacing the starter on my '66 Olds. It's not a hard job normally...but it's a horrible job when you've lowered it, and managed to leave it parked next to a fire ants' nest.
Although I JUST had a nasty time trying to remove the springs from a '69 AMX...I didn't have the special tool..I HATE TRUNNIONS!
Bryan Frymire on March 29, 2011 at 11:58 PM
Replacing a fuel injector on a '92 Nissan Maxima. Gotta remove the throttle body & cables and the top two pieces of the three-piece (!) intake manifold. It's an all-day job... gaskets cost eighty bucks... injector was a hundred five bucks. I sold that car not long after.
In another heater core related fix -- my '99 MItsubishi Galant was leaking condensate water from the air conditioning system. I looked and looked for the drain tube but it just wasn't there. I had the owner's manual and the Haynes manual for the car. The owner's manual told me two things: Jack -- and Sh!t. The Haynes manual had a brief description of how to unclog the drain and even had a picture of the drain with its location. Thing is, the picture was a grainy close-up shot and you couldn't tell if it was taken from above or below or inside or what. So I had to take the lower dashboard off and follow the A.C. tubing over to where the core was. It sits directly in the center of the car for some reason -- right in front of the console. So I looked/felt around and discovered that for some reason the drain didn't go vertically straight down from there. That would have made too much sense. It went straight out to the front of the car and horizontally through the firewall. The outlet was right up against the steering column so I just guided my hand down the firewall from the driver's side of the car on the outside with the hood up... and found the little rubber flapper thingy on the end of the drain tube. I started tickling it with my fingertip and felt moisture. So I grabbed the rubber cap and pulled it off and about a gallon of water came pouring out. This stupid flapper cap had become clogged by a tiny chip of paint or something no bigger than an eighth of an inch square. So I made a quick field modification with a utility knife to insure that no more drain clogging took place. And all my passenger-side carpeting and padding was soaked through and it took me two days of blowing fans on the lifted-up carpeting to dry it out. I sold that car not long after that too.
Oh, I have a million of 'em. My hands are tired from typing though.
Jeff Weimer on March 30, 2011 at 03:53 AM
Ball Joint replacement on '95 Mazda Protege ES (1.8L). No, the job was pretty straighforward - two bolts on the bottom of the arm and a pinch polt on the knuckle. The problem was, there were two different sizes that year, and I got the wrong one. I needed the larger size and got the smaller. I should have known when they slipped in without a hint of percussive persuasion.
Two blocks into the shakedown, I'm calling a tow truck. Arms pulled out of the knuckle. Pulled apart one of my drive shafts at the inner CV joint, too. The tow truck DID set it down on the jack stands nice as you please, though.
Other than that incident, it was a pretty easy car to work on, even if it had the touchiest alternator belt I've ever seen - if you tightened it so it wouldn's squeal, you would have to replace the alternator within a month, guaranteed. If it squealed, just a little at start up, you could go for years. I got so good I could replace an alternator in about 45 minutes.
And no, I'm not completely happy I now have a '98 Audi A4. I'm afraid to touch the thing beyond basic maintenance and repairs (did they really HAVE to use vacuum for the door locks?), and whenever I go NEAR a shop my wallet screams out in sheer agony.
kevIN on March 30, 2011 at 04:43 AM
oh - I have a few...
getting the back spark plugs on a '91 Caprice. This should be easy! By the time I was done, it looked like the back of my hands were in a fight with a razor-equipped cat.
Or the engine swap with an '81 Malibu. I was replacing the smoking rod-knock 305 with uh, a 305. I've done a '86 Monte Carlo SS before (355 replacement) and I thought this would be a cake walk. First, I could not get the engine into place. It took me awhile before I realized the starter cable was getting pinched. All the wrestling and I broke the brake lines leading up to the master cylinder. I start the car up - and she was still smoking with the "new" 305. Much head-scratching later and it turned out I needed to replace a transmission part - transmission fluid was being sucked into the engine and being burnt!
The back spark plugs on a 200k mile Nissan Stanza. Yep - 8 spark plugs on a 2.0L 99hp engine. The ones in the back were original and almost impossible to reach.
Raineworld on March 30, 2011 at 07:34 AM
I have two...
A 1970 850 Fiat Spider. California summers can be especially warm in the central valley. Couple that with Italian wiring as it hangs in the engine compartment. I had to rewire the entire car after the coatings melted together and the wires fused. Good times and I think I still have scars from all the sharp edges.
And a 1976 Dodge Ramcharger. 318 CID. The engine wasn't the problem, it was the clutch. Replace one? Holy cow. I had to buy a 3 foot extension for the socket set--after removing the entire front of the car. Chains holding the transfer case...a mess of epic proportions. To add insult to injury, I had to do it twice. 'Cause, ya know, the one you bought ended up not being heavy duty enough and started slipping a month later.
Oh, wait...how about my girlfriend's 1977 MG Midget. "It won't start." Ha ha ha. Replacing the starter calls for pulling the engine. I managed somehow to snake it out after infinite turns of an end wrench.
Jeff Weimer on March 30, 2011 at 08:59 AM
David E. Davis Jr. has passed beyond the mortal coil, fairly suddenly after bladder surgey. DED Jr. had a true car lust which he so capably shared with the rest of us at Car and Driver and Automobile.
Peter D. Lorenzo has probably the best write-up I've read yet. http://www.autoextremist.com/