Aug. 16 Weekly Open Thread
As always, this is the place for the off-topic conversation that doesn't belong anywhere else--not that in the last week or so of slow posting that there has been many other posts in which to converse!
For this week's suggestic topic, I'd like to invite your thoughts on a philosophical issue I've been grappling with. Last week I turned over the 120,000-mile mark on my Audi Coupe GT; this isn't dramatically more than the 115,000 miles it had when I purchased it, and it's still pretty low mileage for a 24-year old car. Still, crossing that threshold drove home the point that over the course of a few years, commuting daily in the CGT will inevitably accumulate mileage and wear on what was a fairly low-mileage and original example of a rare car. This makes me wonder whether I could afford a beater car that I could use for commuting to keep the mileage off the Audi.
Then again, the best way to enjoy a car is to drive it, and incorporating the Coupe GT into my daily routine puts a smile on my face. It's not particularly suited to stop-and-go traffic, but I love being able to hear its five-cylinder howl on a Monday at 7 a.m. Glimpsing its dim, gleaming profile in the dark parking garage brings a smile to my face after a long day at work.
And besides--the Audi was going to be my beater. If I was going to buy another beater, I'd want something unique and I would probably want to keep the mileage off of that car too. I can imagine the cycle continuing with a string of slightly less interesting cars until I wound up with six quasi-beaters and a 1993 Toyota Tercel that I'd use for commuting. Which, honestly, doesn't sound too bad.
So--where do you stand on this? Do you mind racking up mileage on your fun cars?
--Chris H.
That Car Guy on August 16, 2010 at 07:31 AM
Chris, I'd look at the original purpose of buying the Audi and stick with it. Though 120,000 miles is low for a car that old, it's not 20,000 miles. I have a 2003 F-150 with 15,000 miles. It's Ford's 100th (Heritage) year, and the truck has a rare trim package that's not in the brochure. I think that's worth saving for down the road.
But 120,000 miles? I'd drive it till the wheels fell off.
Rob the Audi Guy on August 16, 2010 at 07:33 AM
Welcome to my world. I loved the prelude, so I wanted a winter car. I bought an Audi S6 Avant. The value went up 2 grand in the past years due to it's rarity, so I bought a 91 civic to commute in. The civic is rust free so I don't really want to drive it in the winter, so I'm thinking about....
ugh.
Honestly Chris, I'd just keep driving it. It's not a defacto 'collectable' audi, like the UrQuattro, so I don't think that the mileage on the thing will really affect it's value very much. A well maintained car that is well looked after generally runs fine even at 200k, or 300k. After that point, sometimes you might need a rebuild of the engine, but ... I'd just rock it. The only thing that makes me avoid taking my own advice is the completely ludicrous amount of road salt used in Milwaukee and WI in general. It destroys almost anything.
Which leads me to a question I have, of our fellow car lust readers. I am currently getting 40mpg in an aero modded civic... but after my girlfriend's car accident, I've been contemplating something bigger, safer, and better suited for highway use. I don't care if it's rusty, I don't care if it's "beat" looking, but I am in the market for a highway car that I can use this winter to commute in. I've been thinking about Lexus GS300s (early 90s), SVXs (duh), Thunderbirds, and... there's an old mercedes 300D for sale, w stickshift, one owner. Hrm.
Cookie the Dog's Owner on August 16, 2010 at 09:18 AM
Is the car transportation, or an artifact?
My '48 Frazer is an artifact--I only drive it on sunny days in low-risk situations, and it gets stored in winter. If I ever reach a point where I can't properly care for it, my intention is to give it to a museum.
My GTI is transportation. While I have great attachment to it and do my best to care for it, at the end of the day it's there to get me to work and back. When it gets "up there" in years, it may be relegated to "artifact" status, but that's a long way off. For now, I see no reason to sentence myself to daily commutes in something cheap and dreadful like a '93 Corsica just so the GTI is preserved in pristine low-mileage condition--and I don't really have the bucks to do that even if I wanted to. Besides, what's the point of having a GTI and living in a place with squiggly back roads if you don't, you know, actually drive the GTI on the squiggly roads?
Smoke_Jaguar4 on August 16, 2010 at 09:22 AM
Cars are ultimately tools, and you need the right tool for the right job. The only limitations are time, space, and money. If you want that third or fourth car, then go for it. You'll spare an otherwise unloved beater from abuse that will land it in the junkyard.
Remember that 1980's poster about success that showed a six-car garage with a Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes etc...? My version would have 1977 Datsun B210, 1990 Civic Si, 1988 Porsche 924S, 2002 Saab Viggen, 2000 Miata SE, Volvo 850 Turbowagon, and a Schwinn for commuting to work.
Chris Mallow on August 16, 2010 at 09:29 AM
Just my two cents...cars are created to be driven. Unless you're Jay Leno or the Sultan of Brunei and can afford to buy and park 300 cars, I say buy what you want, what you like driving, and drive it. Sure, when you have something you really love, it's bittersweet adding those miles, but like Rob said, maintain it and it will serve you well for a long, long time. If you're going to buy something else to use as a second car to keep the miles down...buy something else you love (a Ur-Quattro this time? Or perhaps the fodder for a $3000 Challenge?), and just split the difference.
Chris Mallow on August 16, 2010 at 09:43 AM
Ooh, ooh, go buy this one!
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bar/1898772537.html
kenny heggem on August 16, 2010 at 09:57 AM
Those Audi 5 cylinders can go 300k with proper fluids and maintenance. Keep it up, put new shocks and struts when needed, brakes when needed.... enjoy it! Once that motor cruises... you might look into an electric conversion.
That is the plan with my 92 GTI 16v.
tigerstrypes on August 16, 2010 at 01:16 PM
Chris, as long as the parts are available and (relatively) affordable, keep on driving. Just get decent insurance. If you fear collector car insurance, don't sweat it, as they understand car enthusiasts and collectors and are way more flexible than regular insurance companies. At least they're supposed to.
The family Jeep Grand Cherokee turned 99,000 miles on Saturday. I was very happy. It's amazing how it has lasted so long after the way I've driven it and how bad the roads are here, despite all the taxes that we pay.
My Grandfather, the original owner who drove it like a work truck and forgot to change the oil for 2 YEARS, says that 3,000 Puertorican miles are like 300,000 American miles. I totally believe him, and we're supposed to be better off than other countries!
tigerstrypes on August 16, 2010 at 01:19 PM
Yo, Smoke_Jaguar4! Is this the poster?
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/tigerstrypes/Awesome%20Machines/Exotic%20Machines/jfhe.jpg
That Car Guy on August 16, 2010 at 01:56 PM
Out of the five cars in the poster, I think the shape of the 928 has held up the best.
Chris Hafner on August 16, 2010 at 03:24 PM
You guys are right, of course - and that's why I'm continuing to drive the Audi on a daily basis. It's fun to drive, it's meant to be driven, and it's not a museum piece. I don't want to be held hostage by my car and its mileage.
It's a shame that using this cool older car is, in effect, slowly using it up, but then again just sitting isn't great for cars either. And if I keep the car maintained and well-used, it may actually be in nicer condition at 150,000 than it was at 100,000 miles.
Norman Sherrod on August 16, 2010 at 03:49 PM
Mine had 235K on it when I got it (the odometer was broken) so I drove it as a daily driver for 6 years. Scrapped it when the oil consumption got too high. Was a nice ride.
Chris on August 16, 2010 at 04:16 PM
Get a first gen Acura CL with a stick for your daily driving needs. It's economical to drive and maintain, with a little bit of last millenium panache. I found a '98 with 85k last year and plan to take it to 200k.
jagcap on August 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM
My daily driver is an all original 56 Bel Air that had 23000 miles on it and spent its life in a showroom. I still don't like to drive it in the rain and for the snow I'll take the 2010 F150, but I agree that cars are meant to be driven.
DSmith on August 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM
Drive it. Someday you'll be used up, and it will too. By driving it, you turn metal into memories. when you get to the end, you'll find that's all that will fit in the overhead.
Chris Meirose on August 16, 2010 at 11:39 PM
Drive it like you stole it until the wheels fall off. Find new car of lust and start the process all over again. Die happy.
Rob the Audi Guy on August 17, 2010 at 07:32 AM
I agree, cars make memories, and honestly, nothing really lasts "forever", so if you enjoy the car you might as well enjoy it. At least it is being used by someone who appreciates it. If it was something really special, and really rare, then... yeah... sometimes I guess you fall more into the category of "curator" than "owner". That almost sucks though, in a way, because you can't use it as it was intended; instead you're stuck maintaining/preserving it for people to admire in the future.
CJinSD on August 17, 2010 at 12:07 PM
Wasn't the Audi meant to be your economical everyday car? What would you buy to spare it? Something intentionally dull that you don't think you'll come to love and want to save? As an auto enthusiast, you should drive something you enjoy. You're already down to a low investment, high return in practicality and driving pleasure point. Use it. When the time comes to replace it, buy something else that suits your needs and interests you.
hiptech on August 17, 2010 at 01:50 PM
Ah, an age old dilemma, to store or to drive...
Given current economic conditions, it makes perfect sense maintain your car and keep it in the best possible condition. I've been an advocate of this practice well before it became politically correct and socially responsible.
My first car, a 1968 Buick Wildcat I purchased from my dad in 1974 and kept it until 1977. It has become my 'Unicorn" and I hope to some day find another one or similar...
http://s626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/hiptek/GM/Buick/Wildcat/1968%20Wildcat%20Custom/
My next car, my first new car was a '77 Camaro Type LT which I have mixed feelings about but still managed to keep it for 12 years.
http://s626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/hiptek/GM/Chevrolet/Camaro/1977%20Camaro%20Type%20LT/Phoenix%20AZ%20-%201989/
After that was a 1985 Pontiac (Pontiacrap) 6000STE which I have no pics of as it was the worst car I ever owned but still managed to keep for 8 years.
One of my favorites was my first Honda, a 1989 Accord SE-i which I owned for 14 years...
http://s626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/hiptek/Honda/Accord/89SEi/Aug%2012%20-%202000/
Soon after, I bought my wife this 1993 Accord SE which she still drives after 17 years....
http://s626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/hiptek/Honda/Accord/93SE/08-93SE%20Freshly%20Detailed%2002-22-09/
There have a been a few others since but my point is you can own a "daily driver" if you discipline yourself to maintaining and cherishing it.
Of course climate, garage, tools, self-motivation, etc. all play into it too. But it really comes down to time, money (saved) and discipline.
I think to answer to your question concerning purchasing a "beater" or not to save the CGT my reply would be only if it's a pickup (or similar) that serves a function the Audi is not capable of such as hauling furniture or manure...
Ralph Kinney Bennett on August 17, 2010 at 02:28 PM
Ah, Chris. We who live under the curse of loving cars can never come to a complete solution for this dilemma. For one thing, the "beater" -- as you clearly implied in your post -- seldom works out to be the simple beast of burden we had envisioned. It turns out to be an interesting orphan, a conversation piece, a unique "personality" that can be enhanced with a little buffing,coddling, upgrading etc. Here's the thing I have learned from my 1966 Cadillac Eldorado convertible. Drive it. Enjoy it. Be kind to it and preserve it as best you can. The driving speaks for itself -- it's good for you and good for the car (garage queens, remember, have hardened arteries). The enjoyment (including that glimpse in the darkened garage and that 7 a.m. howl) is simply priceless. The preservation (at least to me) is fun. It's relaxing and challenging and sometimes a bit painful financially (I'm just replacing my original power steering pump)but its all part of Car Lust. By the way, tanks for a really terrific site.
Shawn on August 17, 2010 at 04:27 PM
Chris, drive your Audi as you originally intended. And if you want the true Audi Coupe GT showpiece, buy this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130421290784&viewitem=
...m... on August 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM
...i'm over eighty thousand miles on my lotus - what's the point if you don't drive it?..drivers have more character for being used the way they were intended, and as long as you keep up with maintenance they only get better over time, sorting out inevitable issues and tweaking the car into something far better than it ever was new by simple process of attrition...
...if it's worth having, it's worth using...
Chris Hafner on August 18, 2010 at 12:12 PM
You're all correct, of course - and so I'll continue with the plan.
Chris Hafner on August 18, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Holy smokes, Shawn - that's amazing. A 1983 Coupe GT with *7,000* original miles? Unreal.
kenny heggem on August 20, 2010 at 11:17 AM
I just saw a 87 VW Fox wagon with under 20k orig miles in my hood for gasp, 6 grand. Sorry, great miles... but a Brazilian built Fox is not worth that kind of dough. Then, I checked the net and there was a more desirable 92 model with the flush lamps with less than 45k for $2800. More like it.