Oct. 12 Weekly Open Thread

As always, this is the thread for discussion that doesn't fit anywhere else.

Both MSNBC and Car and Driver recently took some easy shots at bad cars; MSNBC ran the obligatory "rolling atrocities" piece that includes such shocking inclusions as the AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, Edsel, and Pontiac Aztek. Gosh, really? Then Car and Driver ran a snarky piece in its print edition on a recent AMC show in which it made fun of the owners of some gorgeous AMCs in an astonishingly snide way.

When will these worst-car lists start to include dull cars instead of the interesting ones?

--Chris H.

Comments

[That Car Guy on October 12, 2009 at 10:19 AM]

I liked the Pinto when it was new, and I was 16 at the time. Kinda wish I had bought a new loaded Pinto (A/C, sunroof, FM, etc.) instead of my relatively-stripped Mustang II, since they were so similar anyway and the prices would have been so close (Loaded Pinto vs. stripped Mustang II). It would have been a lot nicer during those hot Tennessee summers.

I think it would have lasted longer than my '72 Vega that started rusting and falling apart when it was less than 3 years old as well.

[Anthony Cagle on October 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM]

I wonder how much of the Pinto disgust is based on the exploding Pinto myth and how much is just based on its inherent qualities. I never thought it was such a bad little car ("Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown!"). At least, not in the context of other small American cars (heck, even Japanese ones that rusted out half a block off the dealer lot).

[Cookie the Dog's Owner on October 12, 2009 at 01:14 PM]

If you want aesthetic atrocities, well, there's the Aztek. Not much argument there. I think the '70s AMCs are actually rather nice considering when they were designed--(relatively) restrained, with a touch of that car-of-the-future vibe. Far worse offenses against good taste were being committed just down the street at Lincoln-Mercury (Continental Mk. IV, Montego, Monarch), Oldsmobile (Cutlass Supreme), and Cadillac (Eldosaurus Biarritz)--and even those paled in comparison to some of the baroque boogie-van conversions I remember seeing.

[CJinSD on October 12, 2009 at 01:26 PM]

Including the 1st generation Valiant in any list of bad cars is just ignorant, but they might have a point with the Datsun F10. Someone drove one of those to the swim club I spent my summers at as a child, and I always assumed he must be a major creep to drive such a hatefully ugly car.

[Shawn on October 12, 2009 at 03:14 PM]

I've been following this auction very closely. An all original 1984 VW GTI with only 517 miles! Truly a one of a kind. It's bidding at $16,400 and counting, I'd estimate it goes for at least 20k. It's particularly interesting to me since it's in town and was originally sold by a VW/Subaru dealership that is still in business. What a great promotional tool to promote the new mk. VI GTI if they chose to buy it back. I've also heard rumors VW of America may step in at the last minute with a big bid to add it to a museum. Be interesting to see where this car ends up and if the new owner decides to actually DRIVE it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Rabbit-GTI-1984-GTI-RABBIT-517-ORIGINAL-MILES-ORIGINAL-OWNER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e589f355eQQitemZ130335847774QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

[Paul C. Perkins on October 12, 2009 at 03:40 PM]

What I remember about the Pinto that impressed me the most was the German built 5-speed manual transmission. It was smooth as silk. I'd love to have a 5-speed as good as this in ( insert your otherwise most favorite car ).

[Tommy's Dad on October 13, 2009 at 01:27 AM]

You know, if someone wants to bash on AMC cars then fine, and if they can convince the owner of some pristine (or at least, well cared-for) Eagle Wagon to sell their car to me, then even better. That auction I posted for the $2500 went for almost $3000, but even at that price I was horribly tempted.

Maybe it's the fact that I'm facing the reality of not really being able to afford car payments (or wanting to make them) in my present situation or have much cash on hand to outright buy anything. Or maybe you guys are rubbing off on me. Whichever it is, I'm finding that I'm just not very interested in anything new or even new-ish. I checked out the pics of the new "Toyobaru" coupe and literally went "meh." The new Outback and Legacy are both silly big and (at least the Legacy, which I previously owned an '06 that I still miss) far less interesting, the Camero looks nice outside but ill conceived on the inside, I'm interested in the Chevy Volt but it'll be utterly beyond my price range...All I need is a good, practical, old car that will get me to work and back and have some utility for trips to the hardware store for small stuff. Gimme someone's "ugly" old car, and I'll be plenty happy if it can do the above job for me.

[CJinSD on October 13, 2009 at 07:14 AM]

Tommy's Dad,

Why not look for a '90s Cherokee? Judging by the number that went to the crusher under C4C, Jeep must have sold enough to finally break the trend of high resale value for anything still sound that lasted long after American cars stopped retaining any value relative to the imports. I've heard that Cherokees can have bad transmissions, but you can always hold out for one with a stick. The engines are definitely improvements on the ones used in the Eagle.

[John B on October 13, 2009 at 08:35 AM]

I haven't seen the Car and Driver piece, having given up a long held subscription when their quality went downhill...so them making stupid remarks about a group of sincere car guys/girls sounds about right.

Heck, I have a Studebaker Avanti...some love it, others (including many owners of other Studebakers) hate it.
One thing I've learned, you never call someone else's baby ugly, or worse, insult a group that is making a contribitution to the old car hobby.

Old cars have enough enemies out there (you know who they are...:)) ...we need to stick together and appreciate all types of cars, even if they're not exactly our "cup of tea".

[Steve A on November 10, 2009 at 09:39 AM]

Including either the Pacer or Gremlin in the list of cars easy to make fun of or easily bad is purely subjective. The Gremlin is a love/hate thing yet there is nothing bad in the engineering or concept. The sheer volume of Gremlins sold and AMC's deserved reputation, for anyone motivated to dig, of reliability is embodied in the ultra high sales, by AMC scale, of the Gremlin. The Pacer is a story of too far ahead of it's time in execution, meaning the lofty goals of roomy interior, short exterior, plenty of glass area, and amenities meant that a buyer paid the price at the gas pump for a fully loaded Pacer. The design by committee effect also took place and thus the car was heavier and taller – with glass taller than originally intended by the core designer, Dick Teague and attendant "me too" add-ons as well as the penchant the penny-pinchers within the ranks had for missing the forest for the trees. Examples? The relatively heavy and ungainly steel bumpers, keeping the overly tall glass which added to weight. In response to complaints about lack of pep and economy when the car was fully loaded with options, instead of a diet involving light bumpers, aluminum water pump, brackets, and other engine bits ( as AMC went on to do in 1981 after the Pacer disappeared ), and shorter glass area they responded with a V8 option that barely upped the hp and torque, but reduced economy, and they restyled the hood and made the snout garish and ungainly. Penny-wise and pound foolish as the saying goes.
Car & Driver's 'coverage' is emblematic of the lazy, uniformed, take the easy road route that most of today's "media" travels and taking potshots at enthusiasts of a long gone ( 22 & 1/2 years ), but not forgotten company is journalistic elitist cowardice at its worst if for no other reason than the angle is unimaginative. It has been done before, many times over. And it misses the point of AMC and other departed companies. Without AMC and Studebaker and Packard and Oldsmobile, Hudson, Pontiac, Plymouth, Saturn and so on the automobile landscape is diminished by a relative lack of choice. Of a different approach, of dare to be different, especially true in the case of AMC, Studebaker, and Hudson in the previous shortlist of marques no more.

Steve

[tomm on July 01, 2010 at 09:14 AM]

I agree, I am sick of Pacer/Gremlin bashing. It does show lazy, hackneyed writing. Pandering to lowest common readers.

And the 70's are now 30-40 years ago, how about moving on from trashing that era?