Challenge Update: Helping Alice
Alice, I haven't forgotten about you--unfortunately, I had more than 20 prospective cars open in different web browser windows last night when my browser crashed. So, after sobbing for a few minutes, I had to start over again.
This post will be my broad suggestions for Alice, some specific listings, and my response to the various interesting things you guys have found.
Broad Suggestions:
Alice's criteria were:
- max of $4,000
- four-door hatchback or wagon
- automatic (though she'll learn a stick if necessary)
- reliable
- good fuel mileage
- fun and zippy, but doesn't have to be fast
My first thought in response to those criteria were the tall wagons that were popular in the late 1980s and early 1990s, all of which should be easily buyable for $4,000 or less. My favorite of this class is the Dodge Colt Vista (two generations, older and newer), the older generation of which I Car Lusted. These were also available as Plymouths and Mitsubishi Expos; they were all made by Mitsubishi so should have Mitsubishi reliable. In other words, they're not quite Hondas or Toyotas, but they're much better than Dodges of that era.
The other prime mover in that class was the Honda Civic Wagon. There's the older model and the newer. I've known two people who owned the older generation of Honda Civic Wagon, and they were deeply, deeply in love with their cars. They have all the goodness of the Civics of their eras, with a little bit of added weight, but with lots of space and four doors.
Nissan had their own version as well; the older generation was the Stanza Wagon, and the newer was the unfortunately-named Axxess. I don't know as much about them.
Alice, with the exception of the Colt Vista, these cars test even my famously broad automotive aesthetic tastes, but they seem to fit your needs. The good news is they're typically not very expensive and are extraordinarily useful. The bad news is they're hard to find; I didn't find any anywhere near you. But if you like these and are willing to be patient and/or drive a little, I'm sure you could find one.
There are a bunch of other workable four-door hatchbacks and wagons out there, of course. The really perfect choice for you, I think, would be a first-generation Acura Integra four-door. They share the sweetness and reliability of their Honda Civic cousins, but were considered a premium product at the time, a smooth and comfortable sports coupe that just happened to have four doors and a hatchback. They were attractive, comfortable, and were available with an automatic.
If you're feeling particularly adventurous, you could get an AMC Eagle, though I'm not sure I'd recommend it in your position. Honda made a very nice Accord wagon in the 1990s (older and newer), but they are rare and expensive. You can find Toyota Camry wagons from time to time, but they also are rare and expensive; unlike the Accord, they are also eye-wateringly ugly. That means something coming from me.
Ford sold a four-door Escort wagon in the 1990s; while they're not inspiring cars, they shared quite a few parts with the Mazda 323 and were solid cars. The Mercury Tracer was mechanically identical to the Escort. Likewise, as Brian pointed out, Ford made a Taurus wagon (older and newer) that was an extremely solid car and that is typically undervalued for what it is. It might not be easy to find those for your price range, but it should be possible. There's a 1988 wagon about halfway down this page in the Tell n' Sell.
None of those are particularly exciting, but they do match your criteria.
Then there are the recent five-door hatches/wagons like the Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Toyota Prius, Chrysler PT Cruiser, and Suzuki Aerio, but those are all too new to be readily available in your price range.
So, what did I actually find?
Mostly, a lot of cars that didn't find your criteria. But, since they're interesting, I'm posting them anyway, broken out by the ways in which they fail to meet your specs.
Two Doors
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/674246324.html - I actually think this Nissan 280ZX is gorgeous. This was when the original 240Z had mellowed into a cruiser, which might actually be perfect for you, Alice. It's hard to believe this car is nearly 30 years old, but if it runs well it might be a great car. It does have an automatic, a hatchback, and relatively roomy rear seats. There's a similar '83 in the Tell n' Sell.
Manual transmission, two doors
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/689974211.html - This is a 1994 Eclipse, which was a fantastic sports coupe for its era. This one doesn't have turbocharging or AWD, but it doesn't like you need or want those features anyway. These were great handlers and reliable for sporty cars. This one sounds as if it has been fantastically maintained and is only $2,200. I saw a few other Eclipses of this era as well; the key is to make sure these cars haven't been abused by a would-be race car driver.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/689863072.html - This is a 1995 Eclipse - same idea as the above car, but the newer generation. This one looks nice, but I'd beware of cars that give the mileage on the engine instead of the mileage on the car. There are other components that can fail or require maintenance besides the engine, and this kind of listing makes me wonder how many miles are on the rest of the car.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/688647558.html - another second-gen Eclipse.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/689675117.html - I'm a former owner of these third-gen Acura Integras and am a fan. My comments on mine are here, but like an Eclipse, the key is to make sure these cars haven't been abused or too far modified by somebody who doesn't know what they're doing. The price is good, though.
Not a hatchback/wagon
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/683620956.html - You really can't go wrong with a Honda Civic - they get good mileage, run forever, and are nice little cars. This one is pushing 200,000 miles, so I'd want to figure out how it's been treated. If it's been treated well, I wouldn't necessarily be dissuaded by the mileage.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/682283830.html - Unlike the Civic, there are many ways you could go wrong with a Saab convertible of this vintage. Saabs tend to be basically durable, but require a lot of maintenance - but they also tend to be pretty interesting. And this one's a convertible! I'd be intrigued by this, but approach with intense caution.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/676156148.html - I think Mochi Mochi mentioned this car; a Geo Prizm is basically a Toyota Corolla, which would be a fantastic first car. Of course, this one is a manual.
Meets no criteria, but I like them
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/682679060.html - Okay, so it's two door, has virtually no cargo room, no back seat, and has a manual transmission. On the flip side, these original Toyota MR2s are incredibly cheerful cars, light, fun-to-drive, fun, and with great mileage. And you could tell your friends you have a mid-engined sports car!
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/670180755.html - The Honda Del Sol - like the MR2, but newer, softer, and less interesting.
http://macon.craigslist.org/car/685915366.html - Mazda Miata, in nice shape too. Like the Honda Del Sol, but a better sports car.
http://macon.craigslist.org/car/690035686.html - 1969 Lincoln Continental. Ooh, la la. It meets none of Alice's criteria.
Horrible ideas
1986 DODGE SHELBY Charger, turbo, 5spd, AC, gd int, needs paint & minor work $800 - From the Tell n' Sell. This one prompted today's Car Lust!
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/674575885.html - Yeah, okay, it's a hatchback. But nothing else about this Pontiac Firebird should appeal to you. It's in Reidsville, though.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/667387063.html - Alice, this is completely and thoroughly irrelevant to what you are looking for, but if caught my eye anyway. This one has a completely horrifying walkaround video here.
http://savannah.craigslist.org/car/681426838.html - I think Cookie the Dog's Owner mentioned this car. I'm intrigued, but let idiots like me make that mistake. Alice, run away, run away.
http://macon.craigslist.org/car/680049277.html - "Can be driven very short distances." Love it.
Two more horrible ideas came from John Bono and Mochi Mochi. Bono submitted the Mercury Colony Park, and Mochi Mochi submitted a Jeep Wagoneer.
Stop it, you two. This is like smoking in front of somebody who is trying to give up cigarettes. I'm already on record with my Wagoneer obsession, and the Colony Park is completely fantastic. My "buy" neurons are firing wildly right now, and I think I need a cold shower.
Alice, does any of this help at all?
--Chris H.
Mochi Mochi on May 22, 2008 at 04:10 PM
mmmm... jeeeeepppp waaaggoneeeer. tasty goodness. 4 doors. wagon. very nice. Chris - they can hook you up. I'll kick in $100 if you buy it.
Chris Hafner on May 22, 2008 at 04:14 PM
Mochi Mochi: "mmmm... jeeeeepppp waaaggoneeeer. tasty goodness. 4 doors. wagon. very nice. Chris - they can hook you up. I'll kick in $100 if you buy it."
Stop it! AHHHHH!
Brian on May 22, 2008 at 09:15 PM
I'm just on the floor snorting with laughter here. I've got to go to Georgia and buy a 1980 Datsun.
Mochi Mochi on May 22, 2008 at 11:43 PM
This bears repeating: "5.0 pinto - $500 - its a good project car i have already swapped the motor and tranny it will start up and can be driven very short distances. the reason for only short distances is because i dont have a radiator for it so it will overheat if you let it run for too long i have included a picture or the motor and of the floor pan as you can see there is some rust damage to the floorboard but that is the only spot." That one spot is... how do I put this... the floor.
I love the burn-outs this thing does. BTW: with two drivers a pinto station wagon can be driven across country in 2.5 days - that's with a 10hr stop over in Oklahoma City for sleep.
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame on May 23, 2008 at 09:02 AM
Heck, if you buy the Wagoneer, *I'll* kick in a $100 for you, too.
Chris Hafner on May 23, 2008 at 09:36 AM
You guys are nuts - in a great way. I appreciate the offer, but even a $3,800 Wagoneer with little detail in the ad and that I'd have to transport from Georgia isn't all that attractive.
But I am intrigued by:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/685621851.html
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/car/690567990.html
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/car/690977387.html
As well as these pipe dreams ...
http://www.wagonmasters.com/1321/1321gw.htm
http://www.wagonmasters.com/1328/1328gw.htm
David Drucker on May 23, 2008 at 11:35 AM
MMMMmmm.... Wagoneer. I had the 1980 two-door version, called the Cherokee Chief, with the "wide" package. The package consisted of fender flares that made giant (for the day) off-road tires possible. It was 12 years old when I bought it, and by then it had descended deep into jalopydom. But it would go absolutely anywhere, and when a car-crazed buddy of mine saw it for the first time his comment was "scary vehicle."
For Alice, it's a bad choice. Better -- best -- is the Miata. If a given event calls for more seating/luggage capacity, she can bat her eyelashes and say "someone else will have to provide transport."
Me, I've got a chubby for the Colony Park, which is more my size.
David Drucker on May 23, 2008 at 11:36 AM
MMMMmmm.... Wagoneer. I had the 1980 two-door version, called the Cherokee Chief, with the "wide" package. The package consisted of fender flares that made giant (for the day) off-road tires possible. It was 12 years old when I bought it, and by then it had descended deep into jalopydom. But it would go absolutely anywhere, and when a car-crazed buddy of mine saw it for the first time his comment was "scary vehicle."
For Alice, it's a bad choice. Better -- best -- is the Miata. If a given event calls for more seating/luggage capacity, she can bat her eyelashes and say "someone else will have to provide transport."
Me, I've got a chubby for the Colony Park, which is more my size.
OldCarGuy on May 23, 2008 at 05:16 PM
Funny how we are lusting after such behemoths! I thought it was only me...
mochi mochi on May 24, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Seriously OCG - it is funny. I never thought I would get distracted thinking about the hood lines of a Wagoneer.
These cars seem so innocent. Kind of a funny thing to say about land yachts. Perpetually locked in a different, somewhat kinder, time.
Chris, my $100 offer stands for the "1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer - $2500 (Bothell, WA)". Someone has to get a Wagoneer!!!
Alice on May 25, 2008 at 01:58 AM
I want to thank you all for all of your help. With everyone's suggestions in mind, I now have a much better idea of what is most practical for me. I'm preparing a larger-scale comment with my thoughts on some of the recommended cars I liked best, etc. - I'll have that on this post or the previous one sometime tomorrow. :)
-Alice
Mochi Mochi on May 27, 2008 at 08:46 AM
SUVs plunge toward 'endangered' & Nova looks at "Cars of the future"
I found this article about current car sales, and used car sales and trade-ins. Gas Guzzlers are not moving off of sales lots. There are some worthwhile suggestions for those considering selling their cars...
"Owners might owe $20,000 or more when the vehicle is now worth $12,000. It's similar to an upside-down mortgage, and it may not make sense to try a trade-in.
"What they might be doing is spending thousands of dollars to save hundreds," says Jack Nerad, the executive director of Kelley Blue Book's kbb.com."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/05/23/dumping.suvs/index.html?eref=onion
Also the PBS Series Nova has a new episode this week called "Cars of the Future" Hosted by Tom and Ray, The Car Guys. This is a pretty entertaining and interesting study of new directions in auto design. A lot of focus on fuel efficiency, electric cars, and safety. It's definitely worth watching. Among other things it addresses the question of "can you make a safe car that is light, fuel efficient, and safe". the Answer is yes. Also covered are is the question of charging electric vehicles from the power grid. The answer is yes it does actually reduce emission and it has the benefit of shifting use to alternate fuels - ie it is better than consuming more oil. Here's the link to the Nova "Cars of the Future" site. Check local listings for times:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/
Ken on May 27, 2008 at 01:47 PM
It may be too late but see if you can find a year 2000 or later Ford Focus ZXW wagon.