Buying Used Cars
It sounds like Mochi Mochi has a used-car conundrum--and because it's an interesting question, I think it deserves its own post.
"Friends: I need your help. I went on a car date this evening. The whole online dating analogy that Chris mentioned is so apt. So I've been looking around. I found a nice 1992 Integra GSR - stock - not chopped up or modded. No signs of rust. No indication of accidents. The asking price was $3900. Body is clean. Everything works ok.
Here's the breakdown of negatives. Original teal metalic clear coat on roof and hood is flaking off, base coat of paint is solid but needs to be stripped and painted (no biggy but I'm not a huge fan of that early 90's teal color - a new paint job would be nice - it is the original paint).
Speedo cable needs lube. Front passenger caliper needs replacing - again not a big deal I would put on a big brake kit anyway.
Windshield has a crack - needs to be replaced. Wheels and tires - eh - nothing great. They have lots of tread. A possible slight out of round - or bad tire pressure. Who really cares. I noticed a little instability and a slight drift over some surfaces. Could be a hokey shock - could just be the tires - I checked the pressure after the test drive and they were all at completely different pressures - ranged from 23 psi to 30 psi - too low and uneven.
The clutch is very stiff - supposed to be new - if so it needs lube. Also the shifter... not smooth and light like my civic. I'm guessing the linkage needs adjusting, lube and/or replacement. Getting into 5th took a bit of muscle.
Engine makes good power and revs really high. But I'm not blown away by the power. It feels restricted. But the engine is an A17 and looks clean. Though there are some signs that there was an oil leak at some point in the past. They did a rebuild 30k ago I can get the paperwork. The car has a total of about 160K on the body. Driver's seat has some wear - a small hole.
The frame is solid and taut. No squeeks or major rattles (except for the speedo). Like I said - no signs of rust or accidents. Undercarriage looks pretty clean. I'm getting the vin and checking the history tomorrow.
Overall this is a nice car that could be made into a good little rocket. I'm not crazy about the power steering, and I'd probably need to convert it to manual steering. The power assist combined with the vague tires is a problem. When I got back in my Si I the feel of the road was so welcome.
The interior is clean from what I can see. Power everything works well - sun roof is great - motor is strong.
So now the final problem. The car smells like a stuffy old hotel room. The ones where they use strange deodorizers that kind of stink and make you feel like taking a shower. I've never tried to get a smell out of a car. Do you have them steam cleaned? What?? I'm guessing that one of the drivers smoked and they tried to make the car smell better by using a cheap carpet cleaner. This reminds me of a girl I went out with - once. She was cute. Not a knock out, but cute cute enough to kiss. But her breath! Oy! Not good. There was never anything because of that problem. Smell counts in my book.
When I got my SI it was clean and fresh and it still is. It is so much edgier now than it was when I drove it, but it always felt great. This car feels ok - not amazing but pretty good for a car that has some age and has been owned by average people. I could make this GSR a hard edged driving instrument - bring it up to the standards of my SI. But I loved the SI from the moment I drove it. This is a good car with potential - a paint job and some work could bring it to a really good place. But there's that funny smell, and the fact that I did not feel any huge "love". Of course I don't need a car right now - I'm not desperate. The reason for looking at all is based on the idea that I'd like to have a back up car, a project car, and a car that is rust free for a long future. And the reality is that comparing anything to my SI is really hard. But I remember that when I got the SI I just wanted some temporary cheap transport... I had no idea I would fall completely in love.
Now! the twist. I offered $3000.00. They came down to $3300 from $3900. So its affordable and a reasonable deal for a car with a nice straight rust free frame.
This is the first car I've gone to see in person because it was the first one whose ad met my criteria. If I were coaching a friend on dating a girl I'd say "man, this is your first date, you have any reservations walk away and do a little more dating. See a few more girls before you get serious". Buying this car would be like getting serious after the first date.
Gentlemen. I need your advice. Walk and keep looking - or buy it and find a good cleaner?"
I help a lot of friends find and buy used cars, with a wide variety of pricing ranges, needs, and preferences. And no matter what the circumstance, my advice has been this--when in doubt, walk. There is a huge universe of used cars out there, and if you don't urgently need immediate transportation to get to work or to care for your sick mother, it's always in your favor to be patient and wait for the right car. No matter what you're looking for, the odds are it is out there somewhere and will come available if you wait for a month or two.
This may sound at odds with my Car Lust stance, but buying used cars is all about risk management. Any used car purchase, no matter how smart, has the potential to blow up in your face--the key is to minimize that risk. This doesn't mean that everybody needs to buy Toyota Camrys. Quite the opposite. It is possible to be focused tightly on buying a nice vintage Alfa Romeo and then make the right moves to make sure it's a sweet partner and not a source of irritation and frustration.
So, how do you find a sweet automotive partner? Again, there are no guarantees, but there are the steps I take to minimize risk. Not every step is vital, but if you ignore the whole list you're leaving yourself naked.
Focus on private sellers
Used-car lots don't tend to have cars that I find interesting, but I try to avoid them anyway. Aside from the few single-marque specialists, which can be excellent, many used-car lots buy their cars at auction and spend as little money as possible to get them ready for sale. Not all, certainly--there are some good used-car lots out there--but my purpose is to find a good used car, not to be fair to used-car lot owners. the pool of good used cars is large enough for me to be exclude a huge group of sellers and still find something interesting. New-car dealers tend to have quality used cars, but they tend to be pricey and, again, not typically cars that I find particularly interesting.
Be comfortable with the owner
One reason I prefer private owners is that you can get a feel for the owner. If the same person has owned the car for a reasonable amount of time, their treatment of the car is a huge factor in how sweet the car will be for you--on older cars, almost as big as how the car was built in the first place. A neglected, beat-up Honda Civic will likely be a more treacherous partner and will require more attention than a babied, well-maintained, doted-on Ford Taurus.
The great news out of that is that it makes the purchase of interesting cars rational. Some friends of mine needed a second car, needed a wagon, and only have $4,000 or so to spend. They had a newborn and a new house, so badly needed something reliable. They hated Subaru Outbacks, but were willing to settle for one. On a whim, I took them to see a '94 BMW 525i Wagon. It looked great, drove great, had receipts detailing meticulous maintenance and, most importantly, the owner was fantastic. It was obvious this car was his baby, and he knew everything about it and was able to detail its strong and weak points. He also had an Alfa Spider and a Moto Guzzi in the garage, both in similar states of perfection.
Normally this family would prefer a Japanese car for the reliability and inexpensive maintenance, but based on the owner and the records, I was able to recommend the BMW with a clear conscience. Not only has it been a fantastic partner for them (much more faithful than the abused Infiniti G20 that had previously been their sole car), but they are absolutely in lust with it. It's a pleasure to see.
Anyway, I've rambled--but it's important to get a good feeling for how the owner has maintained the car. Likewise, if you don't get a good feeling from the owner, walk away. It's not worth the risk that the owner has abused the car.
Receipts are great--if you really look at them
I've seen people get excited because a used car comes with maintenance receipts, and then they never look at them. Yes, clearly, it's a good sign that the owner has bothered to keep the maintenance receipts. but make sure you go through them to familiarize yourself with what's been done. Have the fluids and filters been changed at the appropriate intervals? Anything missing that should be there? This often depends on the quirks of a vehicle--for example, original Saab 900s often had problematic steering racks. If you're looking at a used Saab 900 and the owner has already replaced the steering rack, that's a point in favor. Likewise, if not, you may have to be prepared to shoulder that burden.
Get the car checked out
Getting the car checked out can seem really onerous--you have to sell the owner on the idea, you have to work out the logistics and pay for it. I don't do it nearly as often when I buy a car as I should. But, while mechanics can miss problems, it's a great way to really get the lowdown on the car's condition. All of these other guidelines are ways to infer a car's condition. Getting the car checked by a professional can tell you not just what's wrong, or what's close to going wrong, but also what's right. I've had cars checked out and had a mechanic come over and tell me that the car's in such good shape that he'd buy it himself. It's always nice to have that peace of mind.
Don't rationalize
If anything makes you feel hinky, walk away. Walking away after one date is much easier than divorce. And to borrow again from the dating analogy, there are plenty of fish in the sea. Something better will come along, and you don't want to kick yourself when you see that something better in the classifieds and your compromise car is sitting in your driveway.
About this car
I'd be very leery of the smell. Bad smells can be notoriously difficult to exorcise, maddening to live with, and make the car very difficult to sell to someone else. But Mochi, even more damning than that is the fact that you're not in love with it.
You answered your own question above when you described how you felt about your Si the first time you drove it. You loved it, and it instantly felt right. Your next car should hit you in exactly the same way. You're trying to rationalize the Integra; if you're trying to rationalize it, it's not the right car. I rationalized our Saturn despite my negative gut feeling, and look at how that worked out! The only reason to rationalize away a lot of flaws is if you immediately the love the car. But if you don't, there's no point. Go find something that feels right.
Now, the rules change slightly if your sights are very tightly limited to something rare (like a Saab Sonnett, for example) and your budget isn't very big. In that situation, just to get into the game, you might have to accept more flaws. But '92 Integras are far more common than Sonnetts, and my impression is that you aren't necessarily fixed on '92 Integras--your pool of eligible cars is actually much bigger.
Mochi, my advice would be to just keep your pool of possible cars as broad as possible, and hold out for the car that pleases both your heart and your mind.
--Chris H.
Rob the SVX guy on April 24, 2008 at 09:48 AM
Mochi: Price is way too high. I realize that it's a rare integra, the rarest of the GSRs, but honestly, who cares. Rarity and exclusivity isn't what you're after anyway. A decent paintjob will cost you about $2500 at the minimum, and a new windshield is another $200 at least. The speedo cable is an easy fix, and the caliper can be had cheap, it's probably just the sliding pin is a little seized, if you take the bolt out, wire wheel it, and apply some new grease it will most likely work just fine. Big brake kits are overkill for vehicles this small, instead a better use of your money is just to get some decent rotors, and nice pads. Something like Axxis Ultimates, Metal masters, or EBC Greenstuff. Throw in some nice brake fluid and bleed them and it'll stop amazingly well.
The engine is a b series, DOHC, not a series. It's a stroked version of the B16. It's ... nothing special. It's okay. The fact that they had to 'rebuild' it makes me nervous.... it shouldn't have needed one. One of my hondas has 264,000, the other has 158,000 and both run fine. The shifter bushings sound worn, that's okay, you can get some poly bushings instead. The smell, I'm almost 95% sure, is due to the air conditioning. Some people use the A/C until they get somewhere, and turn the car off. The problem is the cold exchanger thing inside the dash gets all sorts of condensation, which then starts to mold. If you make it a habit to turn the A/C off and just blow air on it the last few minutes of driving, you can prevent/stop this smell. Also, if they were a smoker, just remove the seats and get a carpet cleaner and vacuum the carpet and seats. It'll make a huge difference.
I'm not going to say buy it or don't but I will say that I think $3000 is still way too much for this car. If it had perfect paint.... $3000 still seems a tad high given the windshield, speedo, smell, and shifter. If it had perfect paint, $2500 seems fair. But it doesn't. It seems like the seller knows how rare those GSRs are, and if you aren't totally set on a super rare GSR, just get something else. If you do like the car (it does look cool), talk him down a lot, or get one somewhere else.
Mochi Mochi on April 24, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Thanks Chris, Rob, and OldCarGuy! I awoke this morning sobered by some sleep. Your great advice was welcome reinforcement for my resolve to walk away from the smelly GSR. I was driven by that urge to make it right. But something just don't feel right. And the feeling wasn't there. The GSR had an A17 engine, but that really did not feel better than the mighty little D16 engine I have in my SI. There were too many things that just didn't click. The funky color didn't help either. Nor the fact that one of the people selling the car was a fortune teller who drove an escalade! No love and lot of strangeness.
This was actually a helpful exercise because it uncovered the problem I have been struggling with. My SI was supposed to be a stop gap car when I bought it. An inexpensive filler for a few years until I found a new car. But it stole my heart somehow. Now it has risen to the status of a pet.
I'd been looking forward to putting more tweaks and mods into it. I have been planning a conversion to 4wheel disc brakes and a big brake kit as well as a few other things. (Rob) I know it may seem like overkill for a car that weighs 2200lbs, but I have a habit of testing the limits of my brakes. I have tried all kinds of pads and rotors - Ferodo and Brembo racing pads, full metal - every thing. I even got special drum compounds from Ferodo. On my old 320i I actually turned the rotors blue by oxidizing the chromium in the discs. And my recent escapades in the mountains of southern New Mexico showed me just how easy it is to melt my rotors. But I digress...
My SI came from the Northeast. Therefore we are fighting rust even now here in souther California. A recent trip to a respected and reputable body shop determined that two small areas of rust will take about $4000 to fix. That's a real issue. If I'm to put more mods into the SI it needs to be solid in order to warrant the investment. But for $4K I could buy another used car. This one only cost $2750. So I'm looking. I was limiting my search to civic based vehicles - and the porsche 914 (talk about rust problems! even the desert 914s are rusting). I could save a few dollars by getting side skirts and panels and a deep spoiler, but that's not going to save me much and it would change the SI's lovely lines. I could buy a used SI and do a parts swap - kind of a car transplant.
I am irrationally attached to this car. I've seen a lot of my favorites cars disappear as they were eaten by salt. I've been trying to save this car... and I've taken extreme measures to do it. The GSR I saw last night was an attempt to see where things stand. My 91 Si versus anything else. It's not like I don't drive other cars. I do - they are all just fine. But when I get back behind the wheel of the SI it fits like a glove and it performs EXACTLY the way I want it to, in good part because I've put a lot of work into refining it - molding it to my needs. So it holds my personal history and it is an expression of what I believe a car should be - and expression of how I see things. Kind of like a beloved hunting dog - well trained, eager, a good friend - we take care of each other.
My consideration of the smelly GSR I think came from a sense of concern or panic about this difficult situation with the SI. Trying to find a way out - something that would augment the relationship with the SI - mediate the intensity of the bond with my SI.
I'm tempted to just take the SI to the car surgeon and start operating. And I'm concerned about what we will find once we cut the patient open. Right now it looks great - just a little rust near the rockers... if we don't do something the rust will grow. If we cut the SI open that's going to be expensive and it may not be enough. The undercarriage looks remarkably good, but there may be a cancer lurking behind the body panels - it's just so hard to know what we will find. I don't want this to end up like one of those bad episodes of "This Old House" where they try to fix a wall and end up rebuilding the entire house - and the foundation - from scratch.
I'm looking into alternatives. I'm keeping an eye out for a body donor. I'm also looking at 88-91 prelude si, del sol si, and 5th gen civic Si, 90-93 integras, and 914s. These are the only cars that are grabbing my attention. I never thought I would develop an interest in Del Sols, but the SI's seem like remarkable little cars. Nice brakes and engines, and they are happy looking little things. I really need a happy car - the cuter and odder the more I get attached to them.
My SI will last for at least a few years, even without intervention. So that gives me time to prepare, make plans, and find a second car. I think I need to find another car that I really like - no - that I love. It's kind of like having two dogs - an old one and a young one. They keep each other company and when one finally passes away you still have the other. If I can figure a way to get another 10 or 15 years out of two happy cars that I love - so much the better.
Side story: The body shop that checked my car out said the right things and asked the right questions. They told me all that could go wrong. But they also told me that they would give the car the same level of effort they put into restoring classic Ferraris.
By contrast I got a second opinion from another shop that was well recommended. Those guys said they don't work on rust problems - they asked me why I wanted to do this. To which I replied, "well the alternative is to get another car just like this and swap the best parts". The guy looked puzzled and said "But you could just buy a new car". We just stared at each other for a few moments - there was an utter comprehension gap. I broke the silence when I said "I've never found a car I like as much as this one." He sighed and said, "well you gotta do what you gotta do".
Rob the SVX guy on April 25, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Mochi: Try some axxis ultimates next time you need pads. They have the highest maximum operating temperature of any street pad available. The fade and whatnot you're complaining about just sounds like you're using mediocre pads. I don't care what brand they are, specs are specs, and axxis ultimates are amazing pads. The reason I know so much about brake compound is because of my SVX, which weighs 3525lbs and has rather small discs. A lot of people overheat their pads and wind up with uneven pad deposits, so I researched the shit out of pads and found them to be easily the best street pad, in terms of performance. Downside is they dust a lot. :| But... yeah... I almost promise you that you were not 'melting your rotors'. You were experiencing brake fade, and you probably overheated your pads, which glazed your rotors. This makes them work crappier. You need a more aggressive street pad.
Anyway... about your SI. Keep it. Throw some money at it. You said you have an attachment to the car, so get it fixed. Almost any other honda of your vintage is going to have the same amount of small rust, so looking for a creampuff is going to be really hard. Also, when you do get it fixed, you can make it better. Have the bodyshop cut out that tab of metal that catches all the salt and snow and dirt, and make the wheel well area smooth behind the rear wheels. This will prevent it from rusting like that in the future. Even if you spend $4,000 on bodywork and paint, you're still ahead in the grand scheme of things. Plus you'll be saving a friend. If you cut it open and the whole thing is rotted all to hell... well... then it's screwed anyway, but at least you know. My guess is they can just cut out the rotten area and weld in some new stuff, float it in with a little bondo, and respray it.
I'd shop around. It sounds like you went to an ULTRA premium shop. Get out of the city, and find some shops that don't pay insane amounts for property taxes/rent/advertising. My guess is you'll be able to find a place that'll be able to fix you up for under 2 grand.
PS: The integra has a b-series engine. Not an a-series. A series= SOHC, B series = DOHC. Integra GSRs have DOHC engines, and that gen had B17s. Not A17s.
Brian on April 25, 2008 at 01:22 AM
Impressive insights, Chris. It's certainly easier to get 'upside down' shopping at a car dealership than a private party. You just got to be observant & not confuse what's there with what you imagine. And you're right about all the 'fish in the sea,' though it can take way more than a month for the right one to come along. There really is a vehicle for any need out there.
Cookie the Dog's Owner on April 25, 2008 at 06:08 AM
Mochi: I'm with Rob on this. The Si is you. It's the happy car. It's reliable and it does what you want it to do. Do the bodywork, upgrade the brakes. If you want to take on another ride and make a project of it, that's all well and good, but if you get rid of the Si you'll regret it . . . maybe not now, but someday, and for the rest of your life.
(Please excuse the Casablanca quote; couldn't help myself.)
Anthony Cagle on April 25, 2008 at 08:24 AM
I have sympathy there. As I noted in my Our Cars post, I spent a couple of years deciding what to do with my Mustang. You can sometimes make an economic case for re-modding as opposed to buying new or used, depending on how much you drive and what sort of new car you'd get. And how much actual changes you're planning on making.
I didn't have a rust problem to deal with though -- that would have changed the calculations immensely. I would look into that before starting the other stuff. You sound like you really love driving the thing so if the rust isn't too bad, you can just keep adding and upgrading for a while until it's where you want it to be. I think I spent 2-3 years on mine doing major and semi-major projects until it was where I wanted it to be. Paint & body, engine & exhaust, carpet, upholstery, etc. It's amazing what each individual change does to your perceptions of the car.
I don't want another car m'self (though I have three cats!). I just want one that I really like to drive.
mochi mochi on April 25, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Thank you everyone. This is all incredibly helpful. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact there are like-minded enthusiasts who understand my mindset and the challenges I'm facing. We're not in the mainstream here. The rest of the world doesn't seem to get it. It's great to have friends to call on - what an unexpected benefit from a blog :)
My plan: I'm going to do a bit more searching for a "surgeon" to do the operation. But that's the right route. We'll do some exploratory work and come up with a plan. From what I can see there's a lot to be positive about. I think things are pretty solid. As Rob said if we go in and its bad I'd be screwed anyway. So why not. And this is LA I don't think it will be too hard to find the right custom body shop.
Anthony is dead on too. I can't really go deeper with the mods until I know the SI is where it needs to be. But that's all part of the fun. It also means that the pressure is off. I can look for a second car with out pressure - which will make things a lot more fun. I can locate a body shop with out a time crunch.
Cookie the Dog's Owner got it so right - as usual - "The Si is you. It's the happy car." Happiness in a car is something really special. Cookie, thanks. I know you and I have very similar feelings about our hondas.
Through this discussion I've gotten a lot of insight into why I love the cars I have loved. Happiness has been a big part of my attachment. We are all drawn to cars for different reasons. I love performance cars, but I've always had sleepers. The great thing about a sleeper is that it does not wear its performance on its sleeve. Instead there is something else in its place. For me that thing I want to see everyday is something happy and cute that makes me smile. I really loved the bug-eyed grin that my Squareback had. You just smiled every time you saw it. A big smiling orange ball of happiness that was slow but a blast to drive.
The Integra is a great car. It's a Civic too. But as much as I was drawn to the idea of the integra it didn't feel right. And I think in part because it seemed to have traded some of its happiness for a more refined and serious performance look. For me it lost a little of its humor in the translation.
Now as I scan the automotive world I can look for the cars with higher happiness quotients and great sleeper potential. This is going to be a lot of fun. If all goes well my SI will be with me for years to come - the established king. If and when I find a "little friend" for the SI they wont compete or displace each other. The more happy fun cars the better.
---
Rob: thanks for the thought about the brakes. I actually don't have fade problems. The problems I have are overheating and warping the rotors. On my old 320 it looked like someone had taken a torch to the rotors. Even the hub flange was scorched and blue. There's a pretty easy conversion for adapting integra brakes to civics. The integra discs are larger to begin with. There is a caliper offset kit and larger rotor that are also available. Either conversion would increase heat dissipation considerably. I think my recent upgrade to some super sticky tires finally maxed out the system, especially where 8% grades and hairpin turns at the end of 115mph straights were concerned.
I notice that Brembo pins their performance rotors to a separate hub flange allowing them to float. I'm pretty sure that's part of an effort to avoid the problems of uneven thermal expansion - and the resultant warping and cracking.
---
Anthony where I live I can't have dogs, and I'm allergic to cats - the remaining options then are robotic dogs and cats, or a second car:)
AutoCar-Live on April 26, 2008 at 12:08 AM
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jen on April 26, 2008 at 11:49 PM
putangina mo!
Anthony Cagle on April 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
I suppose another reason I have hung onto my Mustang is because I hate hate HATE car shopping. I helped the Spousal Unit look for hers and just hated it. Someone even used the line "What would it take. . ."
I told him "Dealer cost and a kiss on the lips from Jennifer Lopez" (this was 1996, btw). He liked that and didn't bother pushing it anymore.
Anthony Cagle on April 27, 2008 at 10:16 AM
I suppose another reason I have hung onto my Mustang is because I hate hate HATE car shopping. I helped the Spousal Unit look for hers and just hated it. Someone even used the line "What would it take. . ."
I told him "Dealer cost and a kiss on the lips from Jennifer Lopez" (this was 1996, btw). He liked that and didn't bother pushing it anymore.
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Pearlyn on April 27, 2008 at 07:47 PM
Hi Chris, seriously if you really like it much then just go ahead to buy it. http://www.tradecarhub.com/
Cookie the Dog's Owner on April 28, 2008 at 06:00 AM
There's a review of the Acura Integra that appeared on TTAC over the weekend (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/third-generation-acura-integra-review/) . . . great minds running in the same channel?
abelard on April 28, 2008 at 08:14 AM
Hi
Very useful info
Dzo
http://www.getbestcars.com
Mochi Mochi on April 28, 2008 at 01:40 PM
Cookie : Great link to the integra review. I particularly liked the comment :
"Honda said, “Let us build a light weight econobox with a double wishbone suspension. And we shall call it the Civic.” And it was good. And then Honda said, “Let us build a parts car for the Civic, so that people don’t have to put up with wheezy single cams, rear drum brakes, and low-buck interiors. And we shall call it the Integra. And we shall build hundreds of thousands of them, and they shall overflow the junkyards of America, bursting forth with DOHC engines, 10.3″ brake rotors, and proper side bolsters.” And it was good."
In the last week I have had the opportunity to drive (the smelly) 93 Integra GSR, and a nice (but over priced) 88 Prelude SI 4WS. I have to say that the Prelude was really amazing. The 4WS gave beautifully neutral handling in high speed turns, nice brakes, good handling in tighter slower turns. The feeling of driving in the parking lot was "odd" but cool... like someone decided to put the rear end on skates.
The interesting thing about both these cars were the engines. They were both in pretty good tune. The Prelude especially. But they seemed anemic in comparison to my 1.6 D series 16Valve SOHC. I was expecting something much more killer from these legendary engines. I think this basically tells me something. If you drop in high compression pistons, port and polish the head, balance the crank, and put on headers and a highflow intake... you can make a D engine into a wee but mighty beasty. Just one more reason to keep my SI going.
Rob the SVX guy on April 28, 2008 at 04:58 PM
Heh. I love driving my 89 4ws prelude. It's easily the best handling car I've ever driven. Easily. Is it fast? Eh... it's alright. But the cornering, good god the cornering and handling is just awesome. :) Too bad my wife drives it most of the time. Oh well.
PS: You can mod all those things on a prelude as well. :)
Mochi Mochi on April 28, 2008 at 08:30 PM
As tempting as that 4WS was, the price was at around $2800. I could get him down a few hundred, but not too much - he definitely would not hit the 2K mark - if he had I'd have taken it. The car had a headliner that would need replacing. But it was a solid very stock car with 150K on the odometer. No rust.
I've committed to a plan which includes waiting until I have driven all the best possible options for me. That means I have a few more Hondas to drive. A Civic from 92 and a Del Sol Si. I'm also have to try out a 1st Gen Miata, a 1st or 2nd Generation Toyota MR2, and a Porsche 914.
The thing I'm finding is that while Hondas in SoCal are great as far as being rust free. There is another kind of evil out there. Tuners who have spoiled these lovely cars with crap mods and bad paint jobs. Its a cancer of a completely different sort. It is making cars seem more rare than they really are. Which drives up the value and the anxiety.
The good news is that the MR2s and the Miatas are not so prone to the kind of savagery I've been seeing inflicted on Hondas.
What I find funny is that at the same time that I'm going through this process with all it's low stakes costs, a friend of mine is doing the same thing, only his focus is the Lotus Super 7. Which honestly seems no more rare than a clean 91 SI Civic, or 4WS Prelude, but the price is in the $40K range rather than the $2-4k range. I'm convinced that there are more good Super7s in SoCal than there are 91 Civic SIs that have not been modded. Sure there's a price differential, but honestly the anxiety about getting that right car is still there. I'm just glad I'm looking at the difference of a couple of hundred dollars rather than a few thousand.
So yeah, drive them all, then stay on the lookout for a good deal on a clean car. I've given myself the option of dropping spending a couple of hundred over my target price, but only once I've completely evaluated the field.
Meantime I'm on a search for a good body shop. I spent some time with my SI over the weekend cleaning out the area where the rust is, and trying to get a sense of how far it may have spread. It's in a dicey area but I think the total area of rot is contained to external body panels. The deeper sections of the car look really solid. Good news.
Rob the SVX guy on May 01, 2008 at 12:50 PM
$2800 is still a decent deal for a car that drives like that, IMHO. Nothing else in that price range will come remotely close.
Zerax on August 10, 2008 at 07:25 PM
Found on craigslist -
1975 Mustang II - $500
V-6 4 Speed Manual transmission. Runs Good
Leaves me $4500 to pour back into the car. Looked to be in good condition. And did I mention I'm a Mustang II addict?