Honda Odyssey
Perhaps this isn't as much about lust as it is grudging admiration and respect. After all, it's hard to really lust after a minivan--if for no other reason that to do so opens you up to merciless ridicule. Not, of course, that being ridiculed for my automotive tastes is anything new.
Before you begin pelting me with rotten produce, please let me explain. The minivan gets a bad rap in this country--it is almost universally reviled as a symbol of dweebish parenthood and mindless suburbia, a scarlet letter attached to soccer moms' chests. Of course, soccer moms now have embraced large SUVs, which are similar to minivans yet inferior in every way that is relevant to family transport. Of course, now the affection of soccer moms has begun to afflict SUVs with the same stigma that large station wagons and minivans have borne for the last few decades.
Okay, so minivans are universally scorned. But why? What are the minivan's crimes? The only crime I can see is that it's too good at its job.
The minivan's job is to haul people and cargo in as comfortable and efficient a manner as possible, and it fulfills that mission admirably. Forget about three-row SUVs. Minivans can carry more people more comfortably than even large SUVs; and with the extraordinary flexibility of seat placement/folding/removal, minivans are unparalleled at virtually everything you'd need it to do.
Need to carry a bunch of kids and their stuff on a road trip? There's no better vehicle than a minivan. Want to haul as bulky a load of cargo as you could in a pickup, but you'd prefer to keep it dry, clean, and secure? Fold down or remove the seats, and the minivan becomes a cargo hauler par excellence. Want to take your buddies on a week-long backpacking trip? You can fit everybody, their backpacks, the food, AND a few cases of beer.
People rightfully rave about the cargo-carrying flexibility of wagons, hatchbacks, crossovers, SUVs, and even oddballs like the Honda Element and PT Cruiser, but all of those pale in comparison with the humble minivan.
As a group, SUVs' sole advantages over minivans are style and sheer off-road capability--and it's not as if today's popular car-based SUVs (effectively minivans in drag) are fantastic at low-range bouldering.
The other day, I posed a question to a few of my co-workers--if you needed the people- and cargo-carrying capacity of a large vehicle, would you really penalize yourself by selecting something less useful than a minivan just to save your ego? And if that's true, just how sad is that? How much are we letting what others think dictate a fundamental part of our everyday lives? A surprising number said they would never drive a minivan, no matter what.
Popular culture is so anti-minivan today that driving one is so counter-culture, so in the face of popular biases, so keeping-it-real, that it's almost punk rock. In a utilitarian way, anyway.
Anyway--what about the Honda Odyssey? In my mind, it's the peak of the minivan mountain. It comes with a smooth and torquey 244-horsepower VTEC V-6, is as silky smooth to drive as its similarly excellent Honda and Acura siblings, and with leather and navigation, you'd have to push the Odyssey pretty hard before it feels at all dissimilar to the excellent Acura TL.
Honda's Pilot and its near-twin, the Acura MDX, are both among the best SUVs you can buy; yet in terms of everyday use, I'd be hard-pressed to find a way in which they are superior to the Odyssey. Plus, the Odyssey even looks good.
Okay, now you can throw rotten produce at me.
--Chris H.
RHB in PA on January 28, 2008 at 01:43 PM
I'm in an "uncool" family...we have an '02 Sienna, with 102,000 miles. As we begin to look for a replacement over the next year or so, the Highlander Hybrid has some appeal...larger than previous version, better mileage/power than the Sienna. But when we factor in our annual 1-week trip from Pennsylvania to the Outer Banks of North Carolina, the SUV's cargo capacity appears wholly inadequate. On top of that, the SUV's price tag is considerably higher. A pretty well-optioned '08 Sienna XLE runs low $30Ks MSRP...the cheapest Highlander Hybrid we've seen starts at $39K, with the top two locally-in-stock Limited versions going for $45K and over $47K.
I've heard rumors of a hybrid Sienna in a year or two....we would definitely consider it...but not at a $5K+ price premium over gas model.
Steve on January 28, 2008 at 01:43 PM
We have four kids, and my wife has had a Chrysler minivan of some variety since 1994. For a couple of years we both had one. They simply can not be beat for efficiently hauling people and cargo. Recently I got a big SUV. I love it, but it simply doesn't have the people room, cargo room, visability or gas milage as the minivan.
I'm always surprised at seemingly normal people that get irrational about owning a minivan, stating that they'll walk before they buy one. What's up with that? A car doesn't define who I am, I do. My sister-in-law said she couldn't bear to drive a "mom-mobile." So this 5-foot-two woman gets a Toyota Sequoia. Oh the chuckles I've had watching her and her small children practically rappel in and out of it . . .
Chris Hafner on January 28, 2008 at 01:49 PM
DensityDuck: "Seems to me that a station wagon does almost as many things as a minivan does, and certainly everything that a typical family would need; and it does it on a sedan platform with better handling and better performance."
Oh, certainly - I'm a big wagon and hatchback fan too. It's easier to get a hatchback or wagon that's fun to drive than a minivan, but there are times when there's no substitute for space.
moptop on January 28, 2008 at 01:49 PM
Nice thing about those old station wagons was that you could actually tow stuff, real stuff, not just a jet ski or a rental log splitter. I like my Suburban because I can fit ten people in it, if they like each other, and still throw stuff in the back, and tow a couple of snowmobiles or a boat uphill. The Ford versions though, are always built "that much higher" than their chevy counterparts. Funny how they managed to stick the blame for the rollover problem on the tire maker.
hoodude on January 28, 2008 at 01:52 PM
I'm an old coot,60+,and you'll not pry my cold hands off my Sienna's steering wheel. I got it,an '06,so my real big getting older dogs wouldn't have such a hard time getting in and out for our trips to where-ever.The wide doors,they slide y'know,the flat floors,the options seating wise,the back seats disappear but are always at your beck and call[the middle ones are a tuff nut to haul in and out] and the huge space. In fact next week I'm to haul a 48in cutting-deck lawn tractor down the road,rather than hook up the trailer to the suv,and I'll still get real close to 30mpg.It drives great,rides good,what else can ya say? It's a keeper.
EvilDave on January 28, 2008 at 01:58 PM
Yes, I was looking for a pick-up truck a few years back.
My main 100% requirement was to haul 4x8 sheets of drywall.
Nothing worth a damn could do that for a reasonable price. 4x4 easy, 4x8 flat, ouch. And even when I upped my price point to accommodate the "extras" the truck became a monstrosity fit for professional work, not weekend hobby work. And, it still had only 2 seats (not a winner for a family).
I started to think I had to get a hitched trailer.
Then my in-laws came cross country to help in the home renovations. They brought their Odyssey. We went to the store and fit sheets of drywall in the back as if it was the most common thing in the world. No tying down. No moving the seats so far forward as to be face in the windshield.
Ever since then, I have been after the wife to buy an Odyssey. She has the image problem. Instead we drive an expensive-to-get-repaired Outback. Which makes do, but there are plenty of face-in-windshield moments. And it don't run like a Honda (although the AWD is nice).
EvilDave on January 28, 2008 at 01:59 PM
Oh, I should add one thing.
When searching for a worthwhile pick-up it was obvious that pick-ups had gone from working tools to political/lifestyle statements.
Sigivald on January 28, 2008 at 02:08 PM
I have no kids, but I do move a lot of stuff around in the summers, doing historical re-creation activities.
Last summer, my '94 Toyota compact pickup was in the shop for a weekend, so I borrowed my parents' '01 Sienna.
It got better mileage with its V6 than my truck did with its straight 4, while being able to actually pass people sensibly at highway speeds.
(Much of the former because its increased cargo space meant nothing tied to the roof rack on the truck canopy, which is a giant airbrake. But it's also simply more aerodynamic than a pickup - though on the other hand it also cost nearly twice as much.)
I'd take one in a second for that kind of thing. (Not for any "lifestyle statment" reasons ala EvilDave, or out of concern for image or what anyone else might think, though.)
Cosmop on January 28, 2008 at 02:19 PM
Sorry but I will take my 4Runner over any minivan anyday. Maybe yall are all old and married and don't care anymore but do you really want to pick up a hot date in a minivan....No way.
Robert Johnson on January 28, 2008 at 02:33 PM
"I think I'd try to snag an old Toyota Van before I got an Odyssey."
You might want to look up the maintenance procedures with that thing. The mid engine makes even routine work an adventure.
Frank Black on January 28, 2008 at 03:02 PM
Someone said: "For what it's worth, I've taken my Toyota Sienna over so-called "roads" in the Joshua Tree, Cal. area that are much worse than the vast majority of terrain the typical SoCal SUV will ever encounter."
Heck, we used to go camping all the time in an old Buick sedan. And in the deep snow in winter! Heck, I drove my AMC Hornet through many Wisconsin winters and never had an accident in it or got seriously stuck. I think in some ways people are conditioned these days to think they absolutely need a big 4x4 to go anywhere that's not smoothly paved highway.
Although to play my own devil's advocate, todays passenger cars also might not be really built for hitting the gravel and dirt roads like they used to. They tend to be lower to the ground and maybe less rugged than cars of yore. People probably also don't want them banged up as much either.
Noah Nehm on January 28, 2008 at 03:05 PM
I love minivans - it's just too bad they don't import the Toyota Estima Hybrid minivan from Japan,
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/hybrid_minivan.php
or turn the Sienna into one, as they once suggested.
JW Deming on January 28, 2008 at 04:37 PM
I've owned an Odyssey for 2 years. Before that I had a Lexus GL 470. The Odyssey is a far better car, more fun to drive, more practical, and it gets better and better. My wife hates it. Thinks it's dangerous?! I'd never go back to a normal car after driving my own personal space ship. My Honda Odyssey bought new was less than half the price my wife paid for her used BMW.
Driving it I feel like Spaceman Spiff.
Dale on January 28, 2008 at 05:40 PM
Toyota of India has an awesome minivan. If Toyota would bring the Innova to the US, the rest of the market would cry -- it's beautiful, comfortable, quiet and luxurious -- and about 2/3 the size of the steroid-monster the Sienna has become. Makes me crazy that Toyota Japan hasn't noticed it and started producing it with US specs....
Joe on January 28, 2008 at 06:12 PM
My 2001 Honda Odyssey is the best car I've ever owned and the second best I've driven (a loaded Pontiac G6 rental takes that prize.) I've hauled an incredible amount of stuff in it while moving. The best part: after 70,000 miles, my repair bill has been $500. That's it.
vodkaho on January 28, 2008 at 06:18 PM
A minivan is just that: a mini van. And vans have long been utility vehicles without peer. So it's no surprise that mini vans carry out that function admirably.
On the other hand, what is an SUV? With a few notable exceptions (think a Hummer H1, or a Pinzgaur) an SUV is a station wagon. Think of it's shape, layout, and general function! It's just a large station wagon! No more, no less!
And the station wagon was always an unhappy compromise between a van and a passenger car.
So there's little to argue. A minivan is a far more efficient people/cargo mover than an SUV, because it designed that way.
I personally drive a pickup, because my job requires the cargo area of the bed. I wouldn't want a bedload of dirt in a minivan or SUV. But if I had to buy a vehicle just for the family, it would be a minivan. And screw the neighbors!
Anthony Plascencia on January 28, 2008 at 06:32 PM
I've been making the same arguments in favor of minivans for the last three years, since I bought my Sienna. Does that make me "punk rock?"
Guy Montag on January 28, 2008 at 06:55 PM
So, how much are you paid to write this? It's well written, but it rings of corporate product placement. Phrases like "It comes with a smooth and torquey 244-horsepower VTEC V-6, is as silky smooth to drive..." stick out. Outside of advertisements, people don't tend to write like that.
I don't particularly mind advertising, but I appreciate it when it's honest about what it is.
Or maybe I'm making a mistake, and you're a well-meaning blogger who loves vehicles and just happens to use a bit more advertising argot than most.
Eric D on January 28, 2008 at 07:13 PM
I own an '05 Mazda MPV, which is much smaller and more nimble than some of its brethren, and can still do as much. With leather, power seats, DVD, power doors you really almost forget that its a van. Also, I think it's much prettier than the Honda or Toyotas. (Sadly, the MPV is no more.)
I'll never forget the two tween girls canvassing my neighborhood selling raffle tickets for their soccer team ... when they came up our house, I was outside and heard one of them say "Wow. Cool Van."
Bill on January 28, 2008 at 07:26 PM
Hmmm...Had a grand caravan about 10 years back....one of the top 3 worst vehicles I have ever owned (Sunbird and Neon round out the 3).
You can keep your mini vans, just move over when I get behind you in my Mustang GT....Never again will I own anything without a V8 or larger.
Jody on January 28, 2008 at 07:41 PM
I am a single woman and I drive a '97 Odyssey (back then I was a full time mom). I love my car. Never had a problem with it. But people at work say, "Why are you driving a minivan? You really need to get a new car." Or, "I was surprised to see what you drive, it doesn't seem to fit with your personal style." And believe me, the people at work don't make a lot of money.
Now I have a Borzoi (Russian Wolfhound) puppy, 34 inches at the shoulder. He fits perfectly in the back. And my aging Standard Poodle can jump through the side door to the floor level.
My Odyssey is much smaller than those of today. I like it that way.
Jim on January 28, 2008 at 07:46 PM
I'm a fifty-four year old guy and I've had a Saturn Relay for three years. And I love it. It's sturdy, performs well, and is a pleasure to read, relax and camp in, all utilizing the roomy rear area. And yes, I got a few "soccer mom" comments when I got it, but when my co-workers don't know what to do with themselves during lunchtime and I am taking a well deserve snooze out in the parking lot, I have the last laugh. Unfortunately they were not actively promoted and didn't sell well, so Saturn has dropped them from their line. And they were affordably priced.
Otherwise I wouldn't think of ever getting another kind of car.
chapster on January 28, 2008 at 07:47 PM
Almost everything in the article is spot on, except for the hauling cargo part. If you are a DIY person you can not haul sheetrock, doors in frame, washers and dryers, etc.. In addition, there are times when you do not want to haul stuff in the interior of your vehicle, think bug infested furniture, old fridge with rotten contents, water-logged carpets, etc.. My truck is green, ffv e85, and gets better than 25mpg year round. I am considering a minivan as a second vehicle.
Dave on January 28, 2008 at 08:16 PM
Hear that sound? That's the sound of your manhood being snipped off. As much as you want to convince yourself otherwise, you will never project the image of cool or 'punk rock' in a mini van, but you will project the image of Bob Saget. If you're going for cool, you'll have better luck buying a full sized van with a mattress in the back. Bonus cool points for it being brown with a tan stencil design. More bonus points for bubble windows on the rear sides. Even more bonus points for having a rear-window painting.
I'm not saying that mini-vans aren't utilitarian -- they are. Just don't try to convince yourself you're cool driving one because nobody believes you.
Dave on January 28, 2008 at 08:22 PM
Sorry, left out: 10,000,000 bonus points if you conceived your first born on the mattress in the van and told them about it.